Barack Obama, narcissist?

By which I mean only this: is Barack Obama more of a narcissist than the average egotist running for the Presidency?

Ryan Lizza's interesting GQ piece on Obama prompted Daniel Larison to suspect that

"In other words, underneath the megalomaniac is a con-man, and underneath the con-man is the guy with the delusions of grandeur. Sounds like a great combination."

I was struck by the conclusion to Ryan's thoughtful piece:

It always comes back to this, Obama struggling not to let the campaign change who he is. He has a way of reflecting on his own campaign as an outside observer. “We’ll joke,” his wife told me, “when we’re sitting at home watching TV, on the rare quiet night, and something will come on the news, and it’s about Barack Obama. We’ll say, ‘Hmm, there goes that Barack Obama again. Sounds really pretty interesting.’ I think there’s an out-of-body kind of aspect to it.” It’s clear watching Obama on the trail that he knows how absurd running for president is and what it might do to him. “Personally, for me,” Obama says, “I think the story of my campaign is the ongoing struggle to maintain my voice and my compass in a process that in a lot of ways is slightly ridiculous.” No doubt, that’s the question for him personally. Whether that should be his main concern politically is a whole different question.

Emphasis added, of course. This is an interesting way to finish the article: there's a note of impatience there. Is Lizza suggesting that it's time for Obama to grow up and realise that this holier-than-thou stuff can only take one so far? I happen to agree that most of what the candidates have to do on the campaign is entirely ridiculous, but I'm not running for President. If I were I might accept that the process was rather larger than me and accept that trade-offs and compromises are just the way things are.

So the question that arises, is, how can this be all about saving the country while also being about saving Barack Obama from the country? Unless Obama is a prophet of some sort, shouldn't he suck it up and agree that it's not about him, it's about America? Perhaps Mohammed should move towards the mountain. If he's unwilling to do tat perhaps Mr Larison isn't so far off the mark after all.

(Incidentally, you can tell how ridiculous the campaign process is when you read folk gushing over Obama's supposed "thoughtfulness" as though this constituted a bonus rather than a required qualification for the Presidency. O tempora o mores etc etc...)

[Pinged to the OTB Traffic Jam]

Comments

[Nathan]

What?

I really, really disagree with your contention that if Obama would just allow his judgement and person to be warped by the campaign process, then that would make it "about America."

So, is it your opinion that its better for politicians to stop saying what they actually believe, and start calculating their every word out of fear that some people will write idiotic things like you and Daniel Larson have?

Geez, politicians really can't win with you guys, can they? If they bend themselves to the machine, its all "oh what a narcissist. He'll do anything to get elected." And if they resist the machine, the response is "oh what a narcissist. He won't adapt to the machine and make it 'about America."

Did you even read the article? If you did, you should see this post as part of exactly what Obama is complaining about. The media fucks it all up with their ridiculous narratives.

[Dominic]

"Unless Obama is a prophet of some sort, shouldn't he suck it up and agree that it's not about him, it's about America?"

I've seen several of his speeches in which he introduces the discussion by saying something along the lines of; "why are you all here in this crappy wheather? You're not here because of me, because this isn't about me. Its about you." He's famous for making the point that it isn't about him, but about America. He says all the time that the reason he's popular has nothing to do with him, but American's thirst for change.

If you're going to be a political commentator, pay attention to politics.

[EL]

Barack Obama has many of the signs of Narcissistic Personality Disorder: the first thing I noticed were his dead dead eyes and his smug attitude. Obama is a blank slate chameleon, who uses words in a vague manner that sounds good. This is not about America or service for him, but about the cult of Obama.

He sends shivers down my back.

If he wins the democratic nomination, I might vote Republican for the first time in my life.

[CB]

Regarding your last sentence--we have endured 7+ years of a thoughtless and careless President. Apparently thoughtfulness was not a prerequisite for Bush.

We have collectively raised our standards, ever so slightly.

[Elise in NH]

Listen to his speeches. Listen to Sen. Clinton's.

Clinton's speeches are about "I, me, I, me".

Obama's speeches are much more about "we".

Narcissists don't take jobs for 1/20th of what they could potentially earn, helping poor people on the South Side of Chicago. They just...don't.

Sorry...you're way off base here. I've met the man and shaken his hand. My mother has Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I KNOW that "dead behind the eyes" look. Dominic: Obama doesn't have it...he just has dark irises (he's...um...half black. Surely, you've heard that?).

Elise in NH

[Dave in NY]

Personally, I think Obama clearly has narcissistic personality disorder.
My mother was diagnosed with it also. So I too have a really good idea of what it looks like. And to me, in Obama's case, it's clearcut.

And when I've looked online, I've seen that I'm not the only child of a narcissist who thinks this about Obama.

If you look at Obama's language in books and speeches, there's actually a great deal of "I" usage. And he's prone to occasionally speaking in the third person. What I find more striking is that his "we" usage is often odd, as though everyone is an extension of him. My mother does exactly the same thing (a naive observer could even mistake this for selflessness). As well as the use of vague pretty language (everyone thinks she's on their side) and the smooth charm.

My mother will go out of her way to "help" others if it reflects well on her. She's all about the adulation - how other people perceive her - narcissistic supply. She never really went for big money - the public admiration (being seen as a virtual "saint") is the important thing for her.

And Obama really does have the "dead eyes". Look closely at what's happening with those eyes. It has nothing to do with dark irises.

One problem with growing up with a narcissist for a parent - a lot of kids of narcissists are drawn to other narcissists. That's what feels normal, that's where the "chemistry" is. One psychologist who has done some good work in this area is Jeff Young (developing a psychotherapeutic approach called Schema therapy) - he has a couple of books out, and they're interesting (and, for me, helpful) reads.

[genosmiles]

Here are the DSM-IV criteria for Narcissistic Personality Disorder (five or more listed below in order to make the diagnosis): 1. Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements); 2. Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love; 3. Believes that he of she is “special” and unique and can only be understood by or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions); 4. Requires excessive admiration; 5. Has a sense of entitlement , i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations; 6. Is interpersonally exploitative, ie., takes advantage; 7. Lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with feelings and needs of others; 8. Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her; 9. Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

While most (if not all) politicians exhibit some or many of these characteristics to one degree or another, one has to meet at least five of these criteria for the diagnosis. I’ll let people decide for themselves. In my humble but professional opinion (clinical psychologist), my observations confirm to me that he clearly meets five and most likely more of the above criteria. I have never given a diagnostic opinion for anyone without evaluating them personally, so I am reluctant to make this decision. However, as a psychologist may be employed as an expert profiler, this is my firm diagnostic impression. I’m interested in what others may think, keeping in mind their training and experience.

[dazy]

This is sooo true. I have been studying narcissism for many years, being the adult child of one. You definitely know it when you see it and I saw it in Obama from the first. The thing is how do we stop this guy -- America is at stake.

[Fargo]

Senator Obama a narcissist? I'd say so. I'm also the adult child of a narcissist. I get this odd feeling when I encounter a narcissist. It's a simultaneous attraction (for it reminds me of home) and an uneasy feeling that something is terribly wrong. Senator Obama sets off alarm bells every time I watch him. The charismatic facade we see is classic for a narcissist.

[sutt]

All I can say is "Wow". I'd be shocked if you all continue to feel this way after the performance during the debates. The body language alone put the two players in sharp contrast.

If you want to talk about narcissism, you can apply the same traits listed above to John McCain. Hell, you can apply those to practically any person who feels themselves qualified to be President of the United States.

So, let's make a disqualifier of the one trait that probably drives 99% of candidates to run for President.

And what of the other qualities? The other character traits that can inform your decision making process? Are they not important?

[Dr B]

I am a psychiatrist, and have studied NPD for 2 decades.

Obama does exhibit features of Narcicisstic personality disorder. But almost every presidential candidate does.

What makes Obama different is the kind of narcissism. He has, what one might call, a noble narcissism (as opposed to malignant narcissism)
Yes, he might have grandiose fantasies that fuel his ambition, but his self-aggrandizement comes out of service to others.

Some people achieve their narcissistic desire through art ,others through literature, and academic success, and a few, like Obama in politics.

The combination of intelligence + talent + idealism + narcissism is a rarity, but does occur.

That is why, as a psychiatrist , I would say that Obama is a narcissist but one who would achieve a lot of positives as president of the USA.

[Mecobio]

A Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) contains about 8 or 9 following :
characteristic:
1-has a grandiose sense of self-importance
2-is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
3-believes that he or she is "special" and unique
4-requires excessive admiration
5-has a sense of entitlement
6-is interpersonally exploitative
7-lacks empathy
8-is often envious of others or believes 9-others are envious of him or her
9-shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

Very few people have all 8 or 9, but it is enough to have some of them to harm people arround. Most of the sect leaders, dictators, etc have some of those 8, but seldom all together. Fidel Castro and Hitler had problems in the childhood, lack of acceptance, looking for identity. Barack Hussein Obama had the similar problems. Even wrote a book about the lack of a father figure, etc. Fidel tried to help others, offering his service as a lawyer for free but in reality was a way to reach the top by creating a political carrier. Obama

[mecobio]

A Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) contains about 9 following characteristic:

1-has a grandiose sense of self-importance
2-is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
3-believes that he or she is "special" and unique
4-requires excessive admiration
5-has a sense of entitlement
6-is interpersonally exploitative
7-lacks empathy
8-is often envious of others or believes 9-others are envious of him or her
9-shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

Very few people have all 9, but it is enough to have some of them to harm people around. Most of the sect leaders, dictators, etc have some of those 8, but seldom all together.
Fidel Castro and Hitler had problems in the childhood, lack of acceptance, looking for identity. Barack Hussein Obama had the similar problems. Even wrote a book about the lack of a father figure, etc.

Fidel tried to help others, e.g. offering his service as a lawyer for free to the people that were to be relocated from an area that was decided to build a civic plaza. In reality this was Castro’s way to reach the top by creating a political carrier. The people living in that area dismissed Castro. Interesting, that the new built civic plaza was later re-named as revolution plaza by Fidel's system where Fidel Castro have had his ego-centric speeches. That Obama has been related to boards dealing to help organizations does not imply that he is a person who cares about others. In fact, many greedy CEO of big corporations are members of many charity boards. All of them have their agenda, e.g. political carriers; pay less tax, meet other greedy CEO and even sucking the money from those charity organizations, either in form of investment in their company's stock, and even parachutes!!

[Myke]

I spotted this a long time ago. Everything is about him. He had to have his own symbol, not our flag. He picked Biden because Biden is uninteresting and will not steal any of his thunder. You can barely read Biden's name on their signs.Faded out while Obama's sticks out. One reason he didn't pick Hillary. Didn't want attn focused on her. And the infomercial wasn't necessary but he wanted to know millions were watching. Him. Like Hitler he needs those adoring crowds. So smug because he is special. He is a scary scary man.

[Tim]

Hmmm
...'but his self-aggrandizement comes out of service to others.'
'intelligence + talent + idealism + narcissism'
Ever read much about Saloth Sar?
Not the 'monster' caricature of Saloth Sar in the popular image - but the actual individual - as related by people who knew him, were his students, etc. Based on their descriptions, these would seem to fit him to a T. If anyone among his acquaintances were to label him as a narcissist, it would have been as one of the 'noble' (as opposed to 'malignant') variety. And we know how that worked out.
Not that I'm saying Obama = Saloth Sar. But I think the point is a valid one.
As an aside - I know a therapist who's treated both clients with NPD as well as affected family members (many - over a couple decades) who would not agree on the relatively benevolent ('noble narcissist') characterization of Obama (and she's a liberal Democrat - not coming from a political position that would bias her against him).

[waterfallrain]

I never knew there was such a thing as a noble narcissist. If it is true that narcissists cant love then how is he able to be so loving to his wife and children if he is in fact a narcissist?

[anonymous]

Narcissists are all about performances for other people. They are very careful to create an image that they love their wife and children (or husband and children), but when it comes right down to it, they are very neglectful in subtle and profound ways, and, use the wife and children as sources of narcissistic supply and approval. Michelle Obama has said that it has been difficult to get BO to help around the house; that he is very much away from the family (she is talking about before he ran for President - obviously, he would be pretty busy in a presidental campaign!). My mother in law was a major narcissist (that's what my husband's psychiatrist said) and she would go on and on about how much she loved her children and husband. But in reality, she was very very destructive .... It is very difficult for an outsider to see what is going on in the family because the narcissist is very careful to keep secrets and to keep the image of the family as very successful and loving. It's hard to say about Obama - not having met him personally - but, I think he has major narcissist tendencies - and, also, an obsession with body image is also a major part of a narcissistic personality - obama is a
major major exercise guy - and, he is very attuned to his image ... so it fits the stereotypical narcissistic profile....

[Lauren M]

Like the other adult children of narcissists above, you just know one when you see or hear them. I too was raised by a monster with NPD and thus also attracted to them and involved with them throughout my life. From the first time I saw and listened to him, I had that all too familiar and terrible sickening feeling. Smooth, charming, aloofness, dead dark eyes or rather the evil hidden behind them.. this I think is the most telling for those of us that know... those few moments when the mask slips... and aloofness.. With all respect to the Dr. who has studied NPD for 20 yrs., no amount of study on this can compare to being a lab rat of one of these monsters... A lifelong Democrat, the first Republican I ever voted for was Mc Cain... im 51. He will be re elected.. it is all about him... Hope and Pray that we are all wrong.

[ndm]

Ryan Lizza writes

"Personally, for me," Obama says, "I think the story of my campaign is the ongoing struggle to maintain my voice and my compass in a process that in a lot of ways is slightly ridiculous." No doubt, that's the question for him personally. Whether that should be his main concern politically is a whole different question.

With the benefit of 15 months of hindsight over Ryan Lizza I think it is safe to say that it is precisely Obama's ability to maintain his voice and his compass that enabled him to navigate through the electoral process to a magnificent victory in the general election.

Lauren M writes:

A lifelong Democrat, the first Republican I ever voted for was Mc Cain... im 51. He will be re elected.. it is all about him... Hope and Pray that we are all wrong.

Why does it all have to be about you? All this guff about "dead dark eyes" and "the evil hidden behind them" being "the most telling for those of us that know" is deep into what's the frequency Kenneth territory.There is no reason to "hope and pray we are all wrong" - because we are not all wrong. You are projecting your own story and your own fears onto the rest of us.

[Lauren M]

NDM,
Did you read the previous posts? My post was a response to those. I was agreeing with what others said on previous posts and sharing and echoing my gut feelings about Obama which as you will notice was the same or similar from all of us. Another person also stated it was the first Republican they voted for. Any child of an N will tell you, it HAS NEVER been about them/us. They will also tell you that your response isn't surprising... those who were raised by and/or involved with Ns not only are not used to not being believed when they try explain to others about an N, but are used to being called the one that is wrong, the one with the problem, the one that is crazy, and get the hostility (veiled or otherwise). ... Did you also notice that several of the persons who posted above were psychiatrists and psycologists/counselors who have studied NPD for years and agree he is has the characteristics of NPD...
Have you googled "Barack Obama Narcissist". If you haven't, please do...

Personally, for me," Obama says, "I think the story of my campaign is the ongoing struggle to maintain my voice and my compass in a process that in a lot of ways is slightly ridiculous."

N's are teflon coated...nothing sticks.

[ndm]

Let's look at the 9 characteristics of Narcissistic Personality Disorder quoted by mecobio earlier in this thread.

1-has a grandiose sense of self-importance
Barack Obama has a sense of self-importance that is no more grandiose than any other Senator. They all think they can run for President. No

2-is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
Barack Obama is not some unemployed dude wasting his time on fantasies. As President of the United States his career has been marked by unlimites success and he will soon be the most powerful person in the World. No fanatasy there. No.

3-believes that he or she is "special" and unique
Barack Obama has been a United States Senator for four years and that certainly makes him special - only one in three million Americans are Senators. No.

4-requires excessive admiration
Uh!. No.

5-has a sense of entitlement
Barack Obama just came through a brutal and bruising primary against a Hillary Clinton who really did have a sense of entitlement. No.

6-is interpersonally exploitative
I think that woul be news to the team that helped elect him to the Presidency - and it is certainly not consistent with the way he comported himself during the campaign. No.

7-lacks empathy
I really don't think a Harvard Law graduate lacking empathy would have wasted his time working as a community organizer in Chicago. No.

8-is often envious of others or believes others are envious of him or her
Perhaps he would like to be a better pickup basketball player but envy is not a characteristic people discuss about Barack Obama. No.

9-shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes
That one. His magnificent display during the Presidential debates was not the display of an arrogant or haughty person. No.

I would say that Barack Obama displays NONE of the characteristics required for Narcissistic Personality Disorder - certainly not the five (or more) required for diagnosis.

Frankly, I think the idea that Barack Obama suffers from a serious personality disorder infests the same lunatic plane as does the idea that he is a communist sympathizer adduced by the likes of Melanie Phillips. If you are really looking for personality disorders you should direct your attention away from Barack Obama and onto those who project their own lunacy onto him.

[Lauren M]

Don't be so defensive. I really hope you are right.

[Lauren M]

ndm.
I read ur comments again. They only prove how little you know about someone with NPD. They are master manipulators. Have a nice day.

[Lauren M]

The Lincoln Bible?? Following Lincoln's train route? On my...Pure Narcissism... Case Closed.

[ndm]

Lauren M -

For many Americans, the inauguration of Barack Obama represents the end of a journey which began with the inauguration of Abraham Lincoln. It is utterly appropriate that Barack Obama makes symbolic gestures to a great President who is also a fellow Illinois politician. (If you are really seeking misplaced symbolism look no further than the desire of Geore W. Bush to use George Washington's inauguration bible.)

The political differences between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama are so slight compared with their political distance from John McCain that in my opinion the only reason why someone would abandon the Democratic Party for the first time is the colour of Barack Obama's skin.

[dilligras]

ndm sez:
"For many Americans, the inauguration of Barack Obama represents the end of a journey which began with the inauguration of Abraham Lincoln. It is utterly appropriate that Barack Obama makes symbolic gestures to a great President who is also a fellow Illinois politician. (If you are really seeking misplaced symbolism look no further than the desire of Geore W. Bush to use George Washington's inauguration bible.)

The political differences between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama are so slight compared with their political distance from John McCain that in my opinion the only reason why someone would abandon the Democratic Party for the first time is the colour of Barack Obama's skin."

Your opinion, kind sir, is one I find offensive in the extreme. You are race-baiting someone just because you disagree with their decidedly more authoritative opinion about a specific personality disorder.

Your "analysis" of Barry Soetoro's (Barak's real name) behavior vis a vis the characteristics of NPD is so blatantly biased as to easily discredit your overtly inferred impartiality and powers of reason.

To briefly illustrate the truth of my claim, here is my analysis of your first four examples:

"1-has a grandiose sense of self-importance
Barack Obama has a sense of self-importance that is no more grandiose than any other Senator. They all think they can run for President. No"

Is this what passes for logic in your neck of the woods, pardner? Are you really so blinded by your ideology that you can only deduce that just because "they all think they can run for President" that this means that none of them might be labeled as narcisstic?

Oh really? That's funny, because I was just thinking that if they all really shared a trait (your claim does not constitute proof) that this mere commonality would not prove the innocence of any of them, but would in fact do the opposite.

In other words, you should have conceded the point, by your own argument. The fact that you instead chose to obfuscate the issue with such an obvious denial in the face of your own "facts" is indicative of either bias or stupidity, if not both.

Sir, you insult the intelligence of anyone with a modicum of same.

"2-is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
Barack Obama is not some unemployed dude wasting his time on fantasies. As President of the United States his career has been marked by unlimites success and he will soon be the most powerful person in the World. No fanatasy there. No."

First, the characteristic makes no mention of employment, only preoccupation... which, for your information does not mean pre-job.
Nor does it mean one is "wasting time."

Again you have abandoned logic, by apparently claiming that since Barry was elected (more like "selected" by the media, but that's another issue) that this means that he could not have fantasized about being President. I fear it has fallen upon me to point out that this is yet more prima facia evidence of an intellectual shortcoming of yours, mon ami.

Are you really going to go on record as believing that anyone gets to such an office without fantasizing about it first? Surely you jest.

I know, I know....... don't call you Shirley.

"3-believes that he or she is "special" and unique

Barack Obama has been a United States Senator for four years and that certainly makes him special - only one in three million Americans are Senators. No."

More illogical tripe. The characteristic is about how one views oneself--not whether or not one may be calculated numerically special within a group. Obtuseness seems to be a specialty of yours.

"4-requires excessive admiration
Uh!. No."

And you know this how, exactly? Are we to ignore that the man has written (or had written for him) not one, but TWO memoirs? At his age, I'd say that easily qualifies as excessive, and entirely in line with the actions of one seeking admiration.

So, ring up a "no sale" on yer Malibu Barbie Bikini Boutique cash register, pilgrim, 'cause this old sailor ain't buying anything from your intellectually bankrupt little flea market.

[ndm]

dilligras -

ndm sez he got gout from your sack and suggests you take the thesaurus out of your mouth. ndm adds that it is hard to take anyone seriously who writes "Barry Soetoro's (Barak's real name)."

[Hello]

Seriously, you people use some loosely connected gestures and typical behavior of a politician as proof he has this dangerous and destructive personality disorder? Oh for fuck's sake, you people are delusional.

[dilligras]

ndm... What, you can't afford a vowel for your username?

As to the rest of your adolescent nonsense, I shall treat it with the contempt it so richly deserves, n'est-ce pas?

[drurig]

I grew up with, lived, and had two companies, with a family member that has a server personality disorder. Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD), which is a very serious illness, so with my over 50 years of experience, including every single day of my life, dealing with NPD, it has become very clear to me the our President, Barack Obama, the commander and chief is inflicted with NPD.

Knowing how NPD totally destroyed my family, I hope I'm wrong. But each and every day, President Obama validate these very nasty symptoms.

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